[Rhodes22-list] Water in the Cabin

Fri Feb 2 17:39:02 EST 2024

Ric: My experience is the same as you describe. Even with the long shaft I
have had the prop come out of the water in rough seas - when thrust is most
important.
I suppose there might be a way to get by with a short shaft with a special
motor mount but I would say that you might regret having a short shaft but
I doubt that you would ever regret having the long shaft. If there is any
doubt about which to get, going with the long shaft is best.

Graham Stewart
gstewart.gm at gmail.com

On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 5:28 PM Ric Stott <ric at stottarchitecture.com> wrote:

> HI Graham
> It depends on your motor mount and what conditions you sail in.
> If you have an original GB slider type you will probably need a 25” Extra
> Long Shaft.
> That is what I use and it works well except in big waves down wind, the
> prop sometimes spins out of the water briefly.
> Do no buy a short shaft for a sailboat.
> Ric
> SV Dadventure
> 4 stoke motors are heavy, so be prepared.
> 
> Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP
> ric at stottarchitecture.com
> O -631-283-1777
> C- 516-965-3164
>
>
>
> > On Feb 2, 2024, at 3:32 PM, Graham Stewart <gstewart.gm at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > 20”.
> >
> > Graham Stewart
> > gstewart.gm at gmail.com
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 2, 2024 at 9:30 AM Reuben Mezrich <reuben.mezrich at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Turns out the lithium battery (4kwh) and charger that was located under
> the
> >> aft portion of the V-berth was partially submerged and the dealer
> (Mastry)
> >> has determined that both were ruined and have to be replaced. the cost
> of
> >> that is ~$3,000 which is substantially more than an 8 or 9hp Tohatsu
> >> outboard with electric start would be So...i think its time for me to
> give
> >> up on electric outboards and go with a conventional gas outboard.
> >> My question is what size shaft do I want....15" or 20"
> >>
> >> Reuben Mezrich
> >> cell: 410-499-8922
> >> Pelican Cove in Sarasota and Back Bay, Boston
> >>
> >>
> >> On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 1:09 PM Graham Stewart <gstewart.gm at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> When I bought my 1876 boat in about 1995, the previous owner had added
> a
> >>> plank to the trailer that supported the keel. I continued with that, as
> >>> it seemed to make sense, but discovered a few years later that I had a
> >>> massive crack in the bottom of the keel that completely encircled the
> >>> centerboard slot. You could only see it when directly under the keel
> >>> without the plank in place.
> >>>
> >>> Fixing the crack was a massive job. I first had to build a huge lift so
> >>> that I could suspend the boat high enough to work under it. Because of
> >>> the crack, water had penetrated the keel and hollowed out the material
> >>> that was inside. Glassing the bottom was a problem as the cloth
> >>> thickness narrowed the slot such that the centerboard would not fit.
> >>> Ultimately I had to drill holes down into the keel from inside the
> cabin
> >>> into which I poured 3 gallons of resin. I also injected resin through
> >>> the sides of the keel into voids that I found by soundings.
> >>>
> >>> Believe me, this is a repair that you want to avoid.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Graham Stewart
> >>>
> >>> Agile 1976
> >>>
> >>> On 1/28/2024 12:38 PM, Donald Simons via Rhodes22-list wrote:
> >>>>  I've looked through the documentation on our boat and can't find the
> >>> information you are interested in.  I believe there has been a previous
> >>> discussion of this topic on the list.  Perhaps you can find what you
> are
> >>> looking for there.
> >>>> Owners who have a trailer can see that the boat is supported on the
> >>> bunks, not on the keel.
> >>>> Don Simons,    Old Forge, NY
> >>>>     On Sunday, January 28, 2024 at 09:38:13 AM EST, Reuben Mezrich<
> >>> reuben.mezrich at gmail.com>  wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>  Is there any documentation that I can bring to the boatyard....I
> >>> suspect
> >>>> they won't believe it
> >>>> --Reuben
> >>>> Reuben Mezrich
> >>>> cell: 410-499-8922
> >>>> Pelican Cove in Sarasota and Back Bay, Boston
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 6:58 AM Hank<hnw555 at gmail.com>  wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> On a normal boat, yes, but not on a Rhodes 22. The keel is not strong
> >>>>> enough to support the weight of the boat. This comes straight from
> >> Stan.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Sun, Jan 28, 2024 at 6:13 AM Reuben Mezrich<
> >> reuben.mezrich at gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> Don
> >>>>>> I was taught just the opposite...and
> >>>>>> From Practical Sailor
> >>>>>> "Most of the weight should be on wooden blocks, with the stands
> >> serving
> >>>>>> only for balance. Additionally, substantial weight on the keel
> >> prevents
> >>>>>> shifting of the keel in a beam wind. According to ABYC, there should
> >> be
> >>>>> at
> >>>>>> least two blocking points; a single blocking point can allow the
> boat
> >>> to
> >>>>>> rock fore and aft.Feb 25, 2019"
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Reuben Mezrich
> >>>>>> cell: 410-499-8922
> >>>>>> Pelican Cove in Sarasota and Back Bay, Boston
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Sat, Jan 27, 2024 at 6:11 PM Donald Simons via Rhodes22-list <
> >>>>>> rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>>   Reuben,  Although there are blocks under the keel, I understand
> >>> that
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>> weight of the boat needs to be on the jack stands.
> >>>>>>> Don SimonsOld Forge, NY
> >>>>>>>     On Saturday, January 27, 2024 at 01:35:24 PM EST, Reuben
> >> Mezrich
> >>> <
> >>>>>>> reuben.mezrich at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>   So my boat finally got hauled (Holidays got in the way) and I'm
> >> now
> >>>>> able
> >>>>>>> to
> >>>>>>> see the keel. As seen in the image about 2 inches of the aft
> portion
> >>>>> hang
> >>>>>>> down below the fixed portion of the keel....is this normal
> >>>>>>> [image: image.png]
> >>>>>>> Reuben Mezrich
> >>>>>>> cell: 410-499-8922
> >>>>>>> Pelican Cove in Sarasota and Back Bay, Boston
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 6:49 PM Reuben Mezrich <
> >>>>> reuben.mezrich at gmail.com
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Mike
> >>>>>>>> Great point but....
> >>>>>>>> The same argument would be obtained with tasting the water. I'm
> not
> >>>>>> sure,
> >>>>>>>> given your argument, how you could ever determine the source of
> the
> >>>>>> water
> >>>>>>>> in the bilge
> >>>>>>>> I"ve had the boat 3 years now and never had even a drop of water
> in
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> bilge.
> >>>>>>>> We had torrential rains this weekend and no new water collected in
> >>>>> the
> >>>>>>>> bilge.
> >>>>>>>> Its a puzzle
> >>>>>>>> --Reuben
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Reuben Mezrich
> >>>>>>>> cell: 410-499-8922
> >>>>>>>> Pelican Cove in Sarasota and Back Bay, Boston
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 20, 2023 at 4:34 PM Michael D. Weisner <
> >>>>>> mweisner at ebsmed.com>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Hi Reuben,
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Testing the bilge for the presence of salt using a salinity meter
> >>>>>>> sounded
> >>>>>>>>> great until I thought about it a bit more.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> If salt water had ever been in the bilge, there would be salt
> left
> >>>>>> after
> >>>>>>>>> evaporation of the water. When a new source of water filled the
> >>>>> bilge,
> >>>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> dried salt would contaminate the water, making it appear to have
> >>>>> come
> >>>>>>> from
> >>>>>>>>> a leak below the waterline. This could explain why the salinity
> >> was
> >>>>>>> greater
> >>>>>>>>> than that of the body of water within which the boat floats. The
> >>>>>>> salinity
> >>>>>>>>> test may not have ruled out rain water intrusion.
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Mike
> >>>>>>>>> s/v Wind Lass ('91)
> >>>>>>>>> Nissequogue River, NY
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>>>> From: Rhodes22-list<rhodes22-list-bounces at rhodes22.org>  On
> >> Behalf
> >>>>> Of
> >>>>>>>>> Reuben Mezrich
> >>>>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 20, 2023 11:48 AM
> >>>>>>>>> To: The Rhodes 22 Email List<rhodes22-list at rhodes22.org>
> >>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Rhodes22-list] Water in the Cabin
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Ric
> >>>>>>>>> I’m liking your sabotage theory more and more (I did win some
> >> races
> >>>>>> last
> >>>>>>>>> week). I measured the salinity and its seawater and besides we
> had
> >>>>>>>>> torrential rain this weekend and no additional water came in.
> >>>>>>>>> It’s time to remove that step and look at the center board trunk
> >>>>> more
> >>>>>>>>> carefully Reuben Mezrich
> >>>>>>>>> Cell:410-499-8922
> >>>>>>>>> Pelican Cove in Sarasota and Back Bay in Boston
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> On Dec 20, 2023, at 11:29 AM, Ric Stott <
> >>>>> ric at stottarchitecture.com>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>> FRUSTRATING, RIGHT?
> >>>>>>>>>> I’m thinking rain water or sabotage.
> >>>>>>>>>> I’m having trouble with the idea that the  cap could leak that
> >>>>> much
> >>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>>> and then not leak at all.
> >>>>>>>>>> Attached are photos of what happens when too much pressure is
> put
> >>>>> on
> >>>>>>>>> the centerboard cap.
> >>>>>>>>>> When i inherited my ’84 rhodes, it had  a crack in the cap right
> >>>>>> above
> >>>>>>>>> the pivot pin.
> >>>>>>>>>> Obviously from the CB hitting the cap from the underside.
> >>>>>>>>>> It leaked a little - about a quart or two per day.
> >>>>>>>>>> I simply fiberglassed the crack and the leak stopped In the fall
> >>>>> of
> >>>>>>>>>> 2019, I retrieved the boat onto the trailer and it was initially
> >>>>> too
> >>>>>>>>> far back so I relaunched to move it forward.
> >>>>>>>>>> I did not realize that a helper had released the CB pendant line
> >>>>> so
> >>>>>> it
> >>>>>>>>> was free to drop as the boat came off the trailer.
> >>>>>>>>>> Always check to be sure you CB  is locked in the up position
> >>>>> before
> >>>>>>>>> launch -especially with the old style blade CB like mine.
> >>>>>>>>>> As the boat slid into into the water, I heard an odd crunching
> >>>>> sound
> >>>>>>> as
> >>>>>>>>> the boat first lifted then dropped again.
> >>>>>>>>>> I did get the boat forward on the trailer and pulled it out
> >>>>> before I
> >>>>>>>>> realized what happened.
> >>>>>>>>>> Once on the pavement, I noticed a huge amount of water drain
> from
> >>>>>> the
> >>>>>>>>> CB - scratching my head, I looked inside and nearly had a heart
> >>>>>> attack.
> >>>>>>>>>> The photos explains what happed.
> >>>>>>>>>> It took me all winter to fix it.
> >>>>>>>>>> The CB and rudder are the two most vulnerable parts on a Rhodes
> >>>>> 22.
> >>>>>>>>>> Understand and Respect the way they work and always be careful
> >>>>> when
> >>>>>>>>> launching and when backing up in shallow water.
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>> Richard F. Stott, AIA, LEED AP
> >>>>>>>>>> ric at stottarchitecture.com
> >>>>>>>>>> O -631-283-1777
> >>>>>>>>>> C- 516-965-3164
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> On Dec 20, 2023, at 10:37 AM, Peter Nyberg <
> >>>>> peter at sunnybeeches.com
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>> Reuben,
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> That doesn't sound like a crazy idea to me...
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>> Peter Nyberg
> >>>>>>>>>>> Coventry, CT
> >>>>>>>>>>> s/v Silverheels (1988/2016)
> >>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On 2023-12-20, at 08:56:56 EST, Reuben Mezrich wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>>>> In casting about for possible causes of the rather large
> (~2ft,
> >>>>> to
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the top of the settee) flood into my boat I started wondering
> >>>>>> about
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the swing keel...in particular, what happens when the boat
> lies
> >>>>> on
> >>>>>>>>>>>> the ground? The day of my flood had a particularly low tide,
> in
> >>>>>> part
> >>>>>>>>>>>> because of winds pushing water out of the bay. I suspect my
> >> boat
> >>>>>>>>>>>> spent some time lying on the mud at the bottom of my slip and
> >>>>> I'm
> >>>>>>>>>>>> wondering if that might have pushed the swing keel up into the
> >>>>> top
> >>>>>>>>>>>> of the centerboard trunk, possibly flexing it and causing a
> >>>>> leak.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Given the 50 or so screws that hold the top down that is
> >>>>> unlikely
> >>>>>>>>>>>> but..... The boat is floating now and I can't find a leak
> (thru
> >>>>>>>>>>>> hulls are OK and I don't see water on top of the centerboard
> >>>>>> trunk).
> >>>>>>>>> ...so I"m grasping at straws.
> >>>>>>>>>>>> --Reuben
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Reuben Mezrich
> >>>>>>>>>>>> cell: 410-499-8922
> >>>>>>>>>>>> Pelican Cove in Sarasota and Back Bay, Boston
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
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> >>>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>> --
> >>> Graham Stewart gstewart.gm at gmail.com
> >>>
> >>
>
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